Wurmy 2013-10-04 04:07:52

I think it's easy to forget the immense amount of work, bugs and iterations that other people go through when they made their game, when all we see is the finished product that just works.

This also makes me feel like I over complicate things as well. I will very often think that there is a simple solution to every problem when it often just isn't the case. I have come to terms with it; 2D cameras are just complicated.

rhys510 2013-10-04 05:23:01

1st of all - i cant wait to see what you guys make :D

2nd - iv never coded 2 player into my games because i dont have the right amount of knowledge to make 2 cameras run properly but if i rlly worked hard on it i might be able to figure it out. Just remember there is no way to do coding wrong there is just a lot a variations that can be done.

SpikeVallentine 2013-10-04 18:10:19

Hey Tom! No worrires about "looking stupid", you know who you really are and all that.
Humbleness is important too!

You could probably have a disclaimer!
" I'm not a math or programming genius and I feel like most of my results come from the sheer determination to make something"

You know cliche stuff like "I could be wrong and this may not be the best way but here it is if ya'll want to see my perspective."

"multiplayer camera with free roaming platforming."
What about trying something diff. "Picture in Picture"? For the lost player?
Just brainstorming!

" It's our biggest team-up ever!"
Wonderful. Rooting for you, get that bad boy out!

EggysGames 2013-10-05 06:36:41

Oh wow I think the same! It was good to read this from someone successful such as yourself Tom. I worry that if some programmers saw the back end of my games they'd cringe and go what the hell kind of mess have you done as I sit there red faced. I can make some big stuff with little maths knowledge behind it but from sheer trial and error I've made a lot of stuff. Fake it till you make it is what I keep thinking.

Then I procrastinate cause I fear what I'm doing is wrong. Till eventually I go nah too bad I'm doing it this easier way I thought of.

mmankt 2013-10-05 15:30:57

1. i hope you're not writing this game in as2
2. i hope you're not writeing this game inside flash ide
3. i'd hope it to be in stage 3d, but oh well.
4. good luck and plz share your solutions and problems, NG is the best community so why would we laugh? you made castle crashers. anyone here made anything better? no? no problemo:)

M668 2013-10-05 23:50:39

You're a bit like Albert Einstein: "Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater."

@BomToons: I've never heard of playing Abobo's Big Adventure on any console (NES, Wii, Wii U, Xbox, etc.) And for the millionth time some needs to beat the crap out of you . . . in Portal Defenders- I fav'ed your game.

deletedTAMyStudios 2013-10-10 22:14:24

Let us welcome the critics who have never successfully made a game, let alone one as successful as Dad N' Me, Alien Hominid, Castle Crashers, etc.

But hey, don't sweat it. People may criticize, but those who do aren't worth their words, at least not in the moment of critique.

Look at Minecraft. How successful it's been. Doesn't seem like the world's best architected game. Unlike some developers on the scene, Notch doesn't brag about how smart he is or overthink things. He just wants to make stuff, and he's made tens of millions of dollars in the process.

IMO, there's more value in being able to create things than not making anything but doing so "the right way". What is the right way? It's the best way that gets things done. Any method that gets things done is infinitely better than those that don't.

So feel free to share. I'm sorry for the portion of comments you'll get from people who criticize your tools, language of choice, methodology, etc. They should be learning, not critiquing.

Hey, kids. Regardless of what they taught you in school, this is the stuff that matters: Can you, or can you not, get things done? I don't get paid to think. I get paid to do.

Now, put your money where your mouth is.

deletedTAMyStudios 2013-10-10 22:19:59

"That's something I forgot to mention in the post - if people point out the RIGHT way to do something, I'd benefit from that long-term!"

Only if it actually gets things done. Are you in touch with anyone from the industry? Maybe Stack Exchange needs a sub-site for game developers. Although, you'd probably be required to post some pretty in-depth specs on the problem space, because coming up with efficient methods of doing things in games isn't always an easy task.

But yeah, I was reading this article about how both Peter Norvig and some other guy (one of the X-treme programming founders) tried to implement Sudoku. The discussion that followed detailed how you really can't go far in the solution space if you don't understand the problem space very well.

So I know games take a lot of playtesting to tweak and make feel fluent, but there are also times where you need to sit back and really think about the problem space before you start thinking of a mess of code as the only workable solution, you know?

Ideally, I'd experiment with different camera options in isolated test environments, with each option or constraint able to be toggled with some kind of switch (like a checkbox) while in "debug mode". Turn things on and off, try a few things, like maximum distances, bubbles, teleportations with or without flashing, etc.

On that note, people really do underestimate just how many creative decisions are involved with game design, don't they?

lonewolfgame 2013-11-03 20:36:34

Man I seem to miss all these cool posts you put up until way too late! Anyway, I think you are spot on when you say there isn't a true right way, I think posting your process is eye opening for those that are developing too and often stumble on solutions that might be deemed "easy" for others to figure out. Like you, I don't consider myself a math or programming genius (and lord is my code often times horrible to behold) but I just somehow figure things out and "make" it work, even if it is not the ideal way.

I only played Guacamelee a little bit, the bubble thing sounds like a decent solution, what about camera zoom? I've been toying with the idea of having auto camera zoom and locking them into the camera view as I have them now in my game. It seems like most old school games did it that way, pretty much locked them on screen. Another way would be to split screen when the players are too far apart. I heard one of the Lego games (Lego Batman I think) did this pretty well. As long as it doesn't break immersion too much and is smooth and doesn't break game flow, I think whatever solution you choose will be the right one ;)

Can't wait to see the new game let me know if you need a crit before you reveal!